Olin included his new Super-X magnum 3-inch shells loaded with 1 3/8 ounces of shot. There are Simmons marketed guns with proper Winchester proof marks. Its been debated over the years if the solid rib model 12 barrel were silver brazed or fused with heat? All Rights Reserved, Winchester Model 12 Heavy Duck Gun 30" Simmons Vent Rib 1953 Pre 64 Rare 12 Ga. Magnum 3" Edition Proof Marking. Eight major concealed carry insurance programs are now available to the millions of Americans who carry concealed. During that time they largely made the right business decisions, hired the right people, and enjoyed a fair share of luck. In 1963, when production ended, Riffles book shows no options available. I have often wondered how well my guns would pattern with modern ammunition. I fired 10 patterns for each of the five test loads in each of the two duck guns, for a total of 100 patterns. 3-inch Super Twelve Shotshell My copy of Winchesters Catalog No. Length of pull was reduced in January 1936 to reflect the extra clothing worn by duck hunters. Model 12 duck guns had the same six-shot capacity as the standard Model 12: one in the chamber, five in the magazine. Blue is good showing wear on high spots. Many online gun sales actually take away from your local own to figure out what you want. The extra weight is meant to soak up the recoil of what once was thought to be a very hard-kicking load. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. ORIGINAL BOX INCLUDED. "SN:561491. A red rubber Winchesterre coil pad was added the first year of production. bolt act. It was an immediate success. Winchester ~ Model 12 Custom~ 12 GA Used Guns. Tommy, I would be interested in one of the guns you describe. Guns.com is built to be simple easily organized products, useful descriptions from experts, and support to guide you to the right choice. Dolphin717, please give us a page reference in Stadt where he mentions Simmons sending Model 12s with ribs back to Winchester for finishing, and/or marketing. Great communications. This gun is in excellent condition and has very desireable solid rib barrel with full choke. Remington re-tooled from the M31 to the stamp, push and press 870 which sold for less than the M12. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. It still is. I put one of those BIG soft foam risers on the comb and shot it that way for years. 1 9-16" DAC, 1 9-16" DAH, 14 1/2, Very good plus overall condition. For specifics on Copyright Law and The history of Oliver F. Winchester (1810-1880) and his endeavors in the manufacturing of fire-arm sat Bridgeport and New Haven, Connecticut, is filled with circumstances that could have led to corporate failure. It was John Olin who inspired Westerns revolutionary Super-Xshotshell in 1921. Add to Cart Winchester 12 12 Gauge (W9744) $995.00 Winchester 12 12 Gauge shotgun. A lot of us will have to begin learning to hit long-range ducks. Sounds like an invitation to join the long-range duck hunting cult! SN 1231992 Up for sale is a very clean and unique Winchester Model 12 in Pigeon Grade. Ducks Unlimited was born in 1937 to aid in restoration of wetland breeding areas, primarily in Canada. Second Media Corp., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. the store. Buy Winchester model 12 26" vent rib poly choke barrel: GunBroker is the largest seller of Pump Action Shotguns Shotguns Guns & Firearms All: 973937149 . Model 42s with donut post ribs, no Simmons markings, proof marks in the right places, in the proper serial number range, are considered to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. Madis comments Fancy walnut was considered too fancy for the rough treatment often given a duck gun. Fancy walnut could be ordered and the few pidgeon-grade duck guns had fancy walnut. President Roosevelt signed the law limiting magazine repeaters to three shells for migratory game bird hunting in 1935. That luck ran out following World War I when the arms industry declined and the management of Winchester was relinquished to outsiders. At a reasenable Price, you can have that gun you allways wanted without all this drama. This gives a wrinkled appearance on bottom of pistol grip and bottom of forend. It is general consensus that 10 patterns are required for an accurate appraisal of a given load and barrel combination. Winchester - Model 12 Factory Try-Gun, 12ga, 30" Barrel. Harold Williamson, in his book Winchester, The Gun That Won the West, relates that the new management of Winchester embarked on a program that involved an extraordinary departure from the companys previous operations and the investment of borrowed capital in large amounts. Winchester struggled through a decade of inept product diversification that was terminated by the Great Depression. Later pump guns, such as the Remington Model 870 and Mossberg Model 500, do not have the slide lock feature. Most everything can be easily bought online these days. The 12-gauge 3-inch magnum shotshell was developed to achieve this objective. John Olin initiated an analysis of Winchesters commercial line in 1942. Experts can attest to the vast improvements they have found shooting with the Simmons Ventilated Rib. Thus it was that the American Rifleman staff thought it odd that Winchester brought out the 3-inch chamber in their Model 12 pump gun. By 1955, the options were matted rib, ventilated rib, straight or pistol grip stock and buttstock and extension slide handle checkered. MAKE OFFER. Western rapidly achieved a leading position in the ammunition industry through innovation and skillful management. The new value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($937.31) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $484.80 . However, killing ducks at long range remained the objective of many duck hunters. Herbert Houze summarizes the Watrous report in his book Winchester Repeating Arms Company, Its History & Development from 1865 to 1981. Charles Askins commented on the new Model 12 duck gun in the March 1936 issue of Outdoor Life: This should be the best long-range repeating shotgun now made or that has been made. No faint praise, but hardly a surprise. Winchester made changes to the stock of the Model 12 duck gun after its introduction. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga Deluxe GI#: 102228842 Winchester Custom Model 12 20ga 2 3/4" 28" full choke barrel,Simmons vent rib,serial #683559,fancy French Walnut checkered stocks with great color and figure,jeweled bolt and lifter,ex .Click for more info Seller: First Stop Gun Area Code: 605 $1,750.00 I still have a few 2nd style action slides left. The duck gun version of the Model 12, introduced in 1935, was a natural consequence of duck hunters in charge of Winchester. I used to club trap targets with it. Westerns innovation was progressive-burning powder that deformed fewer shot during acceleration. Manufactured in 1959. Checkered semi-fancy walnut pistol grip stock with extended forearm and a solid Winchester recoil pad. Although acquired many years apart, the two duck guns are of nearly the same vintages, 1952 and 1953. A new chamber ring and a # 1 heavy draw adjusting sleeve. 1 Winchester Model 70 Ultra Grade Featherweight 270 Win. Winchester Model 12 with checkered forearm (slide handle) b'. - Straight Sighting Plane - Floating Vent rib action - Extra Strong Silver soldered posts Gun Type Over/Under w/RBSingle Barrel w/RB I worked in two gun shops when I was in college. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. On the other hand, a duck caught in the middle of one of these dense-centered pattern sat 40 yards would receive a dozen or more pellets. The Model 12 2 pin rib has always been "KING" but don't turn you nose up @ a Dounut Post model 12 as production in Trap & Skeet model only lasted from late 1955 to 1956 then round post was alternate rib to the 2 pin. Chamber marked 2 3/4", choke marked modified, and 14" LOP. These ribs have Simmons markings. His Super Fox 12 gauge magnum double averaged 83.7% (two-barrel average) of 1 3/8ounces of shot under the same conditions. Westerns 3-inch 12-gauge magnum with 1 3/8-ounces of shot was introduced the same year. winchester model 12 description: for sale is a very nice vintage winchester model 12, 12ga ga shotgun. The old trap shooters didn't and they did just fine. only one I have ever seen unless TS member owns one? Epic 22 Pocket Pistol: The Beretta 71 Jaguar. I know of a gun shop in Idaho that can take about any model 42 and put on round post ribs or solid ribs that are just like factory original with the proof marks. Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Remington's Nylon 66 semi-automatic .22 LR rifles have grown from 1950s bargain buys to 21st century collectors darlings. restrictions refer to: http://www.copyright.gov/laws/ - doublegunshop.com will not monitor nor will they be held liable for copyright violations presented on the BBS which is an open and un-moderated public forum. I know the patent date for this rib was 1919. Thanks= Re-Up- forgot the offset marks on a factory ribbed gun- two of my 5 pre-1950 M12's have the factory solid rib, and the 1948 Pigeon Trap has the "Old Milled Rib" with the sandblast bulled top and the "Duck-Billed" rib extension. 26" Vent Rib Barrels Choked SKEET. 1934 skeet grade offerd. As far as early 2 pins, remember there were a few made as early as 1919, standard and "graded" model 12's (ie) "Black Diamaonds" they had the longer checkered forearm. It is first shooting light. The buttstock was reshaped on Model 12 shotguns again in the mid-1950s. I hunker down and blaze away. Notes - Delivery *Estimated delivery dates include seller's handling time, origin ZIP Code, destination ZIP Code and time of acceptance and will depend on shipping service selected and receipt of cleared payment. Buy a Winchester Model 12 12ga., 30-inch Full choke, Simmons ventilated rib; this gun was made in 1941 (se for sale by Vintage Sporting on GunsAmerica.com the best online marketplace for buying and selling semi auto pistols, firearms, accessories, and collectibles : 963027340 your community AND if they have it in stock, you can pick your gun up Such were the men of the long-range duck-hunting cult. Probably a lot farther than we can hit em. Duck guns always sold for a slight premium over the standard model. The used value of a WINCHESTER MODEL 12 shotgun has fallen ($310.78) dollars over the past 12 months to a price of $447.25 . Although the quality of the rib will be the same as the original Winchester, the only way a Simmons rib looks OK on a Model 12 is if they DON'T put their silly name down the side of the rib. The slide handle was given a larger diameter, flat bottom and 14 grooves on each side of the handle about 1947. Free shipping for many products! A milled rib Model 12 is a milled rib Model 12, but the terminology is used a bit loosely. Market hunting was legislated out of existence in the late teens. Winchester dutifully shipped its duck guns with a wooden plug installed to limit magazine capacity to two shells. This is a correct factory Skeet grade 28 gauge with solid rib on the 26 skeet choked barrel. Reduced bag limits and shell capacities for repeating shotguns were introduced. is 14" with pad. THE SHOT GUN IS IN VERY GOOD CONDITION , WITH A 28 IN VENTILATED RIB BARREL WITH FULL CHOKE. This is why they were rust blued instead of hot blued. And you are not right about them becouse the model 12 evolved over time with improvements you didn't seem to catch becouse you are probable not a shooter. And, as WRACO states, Simmons installed Model 12 ribbed guns were sold by Simmons, not Winchester. Rangemasters are here to answer all your questions about our products or process. $550 USD. A smothered roar from around the corner! Charles Askins confirmed the tighter patterns and greater effective range in the field. The point is the model 12 evolved. Ab steadies the boat. IMMEDIATELY its how business should be done. Askins concludes How far are we going to be able to kill ducks? Curious, I fired five additional patterns at 60 yards with Model 12 number 1418XXX and the Winchester load of 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot. There were also many ribs installed that were Simmons' design built by Win., and Simmons rib parts purchased by Winchester and installed at Win., and ribs installed by Win. Askins rule of thumb of 70 years ago still pertains with modern lead-shot ammunition. winchester model 12 heavy duck gun 30" simmons vent rib 1953 pre-64 rare 12 ga. magnum 3" edition proof marking - 12 gauge magnum - 5 - 30 " Some patterns of #4 shot might let a duck escape if it were caught just inside the margin of the 30-inch circle. This percentage was disappointing compared to the 80% or better patterns obtained with other duck guns tested by the staff. Pictures are of the item listed. As good as the Brownings are, Ill just keep my Model 12s from New Haven. Free Shipping, No Credit Card Fees. Houze relates that for the Model 12 the Watrous report suggested improve the smoothness of the action as it is criticized for being rough. How this was to be accomplished is not related but closer hand-fitting and gauging of parts was likely. According to the Serial# 1439865, and Winchester manufacturing records, this gun w. 12ga, #366988, 30 inch barrel, 2 1/2 inch chamber, full choke, solid rib, blue finish, straight grip checkered walnut stock, checkered walnut forearm, 13 3/4 LOP with "newer" Winchester pad, 12ga, #1417110, 30 inch barrel, 3 inch chamber, full choke, blue finish, walnut stock and forearm, solid rib, original red rubber pad, 1954. part of our network, we sell THEIR guns first whenever possible. Franklin W. Olin founded Western Cartridge Company in 1898. . 30" Full choke barrel. would buy from again without hesitation, Smith & Wesson S&W Vintage Screwdriver 8 Row Knurled Handle used (#234907824646), Remington 700 stamped metal Magazine Follower .222 .223 .17 used nice (#334728927905). Click here for more information. No Reserve. Nickel and ivory sight beads on the aftermarket Simmons rib, with choke marked full and 2 3/4 inch chamber. Every once in a while a Model 12 comes through our club with a high Moneymaker rib like that. A great looking gun, in excellent condition. 80 of 1916 indicates seven empty 12-gauge paper shell lengths (2-1/2 to 3-1/4 inches). At Guns.com, if an FFL is The barrel is stamped "WS 1" with 2 3/4, ****SOLD******Mfg 1956, 30" 2-Pin Vent Rib, Full, B-Carved Wood, 13 3/4" Lop to Winchester Pad, Wood shows some handling marks Nothing Bad, 90-95% Blue, Shiney Bore, Buyer pays 60.00 shippin. Ernie Simmons of Olathe, Kansas, a gunsmithing "whiz-kid" and a fairly good skeet shooter to boot-they were involved in the later cost-saving Winchester ventilated ribs for various Winchester shotguns- Model 12's, Model 50's, possibly Model 21's-. Length of pull is 14". We'rebringing a level of Just to add th the issue, here's a note that I copied from Trapshooters.com some time age. Interchangeable barrels (forend assembly) for 2 3/4-inch shells and choke of choice were special order. Along in the 1920s a few bold souls had long-chambered [3-inch], overbored, long-barreled, and heavy, long range 12-gauge Magnum double guns built. be complicated. Helping out a person with 3378 posts who if they spent 5min. generous return policy, and handle everything you dont have to go back to Manufactured in 1959. Johnson designed the Models 52 and 61 rimfire rifles and the Model 54 centerfire rifle. However, Winchester and his succeeding family members successfully managed Winchester Repeating Arms Company from 1866 to 1919. The Model 12 duck gun came to market at the all-time low point of duck populations in the United States. Popularly named the Perfect Repeater at its introduction, it largely set the standard for pump action shotguns over its 51-year high-rate production life. This little shotgun appears to have never been assembled and and has a 28 inch full choke barrel. Winchester Model 12 12 ga 30 in Barrel 2 3/4" Full vent rib Barrel NICE! It looks like it is in very good shape. Original appearing donut post and round post vent rib Model 12s with no Simmons markings and proof marks in the proper places are generally thought by collectors to have been made to completion in the Winchester factory. at the best online prices at eBay! The Model 12 was the first magazine repeater chambered for 3-inch magnum shells. Standard markings, with matching numbers on the receiver and barrel. A study of Michael McIntoshs book Best Guns indicates that a few thousand of the specialized waterfowl doubles of all brands were sold between 1921 and 1941. The shotgun featured here was made in 1976 and is in stellar condition. That is true about Model 42s, but, as far as researchers know, it is not true about Model 12s. It is, somehow, not easy to avoid shoving shells wrong end first into ones gun. No. says Madis. The Model 12 Duck Gun is a highly specialized tool for hunters who need to put a lot of shot on target at 60 yards or more. Thanks for all the info,my Grandfather died when I was in 12th grade in 1971 and I now have his field grade Mod.12 and 9 others love them all.I also have my Great Grandfathers Mod.97. Clear (Winchester Wikipedia Page) 27 Item(s) Found Page 1 1. Charles Askins is the father of the late Colonel Charles Askins, Jr., of course. RIAC believes that this website is accessible to the widest possible audience pursuant to the guidelines of the Americans with Disability Act. His shotguns were undoubtedly the best long-range duck guns he found in extensive testing. I have read the 3 different books I have on model 12's from cover to cover many times. The earliest Simmons catalog I ever found was 1949 when Ernie began advertising his "Special vent rib" which was the "Dounut Post". Ernie special order model 12's from Winchester to add his Dounut Vent Rib. Riffle's excellent reference book on the Model 12 notes the 1919 patent date for the two-pin rib, but suggests that the rib was not on the market until 1920. I believe that Stadt's book is one of the few that actually states that Winchester did produce M42s with Winchester vent ribs. , The Winchester Model 12 Y series was introduced in 1972 and made until about 1984. and/or Simmons, left in the "white", and sent to the other. or Rudy Dozenrod out of Wyndemere, S.D. The nearest thing to a Model Twelve that could appear, whether domestic or foreign, would be a shotgun with the same model designation, but it would not and could not be a Model Twelve. Browning, in fact, did import foreign-made copies of the Model 12 after Madis wrote the above. I pick them up through the interlacing covert, a bunch of suspicious mallards driving for safety. I decided to test the patterning of the five loads detailed in the accompanying table. Winchester suggests their 3-inch 12-gauge shotshells with 1 3/8-ounces or 1 5/8-ounces of #4 shot for wildfowl hunting in their 1951 Ammunition Handbook: These shells were developed especially for extremes in long range shooting with 12-gauge Winchester Model 12 and Model 21 Heavy Duck Guns.. He did note, however, that the rib first appeared at about serial number 240,000. 4 chilled shot.. Serial numbers match on barrel and receiver. Only rib extensions of the same width as the factory ventilate drib are found on receivers of duck guns. However, the Model 12 duck gun should still be an excellent long-range waterfowl shotgun with the right ammunition. Spend your time enjoying the gun you want, not getting frustrated with a complex website that makes gun buying hard. I believe the solid ribs were soft (lead) soldered like the model 21's. The $48 price tag was right. Smith & Wesson Model 586: Reviewing A .357 Revolver With Class. Severe drought conditions gripped the United States and Canada during the 1930s. Beautifully figured wood is solid with only light handling marks and marks on bo, This Winchester Model 12 started life in 1924 and has been customized by unknown individual at some point. After college and had some $$$ I started collecting them. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Featured Gun Classifieds Winchester Shotguns - Model 12, Winchester Model 12 - 20ga - 26 - Improved Cylinder- NIB - UNFIRED - SN: MT0162 - AS NEW with high figured wood - 2 3/4" Shells note: particles/dust can be seen in the photo, In very good condition. In an ad in the October 1952 American Rifleman, Winchester proclaimed. A forum community dedicated to Trap shooting enthusiasts. ONLY ONE EVER PRODUCED BY WINCHESTER, ULIMATE RARITY. This is a 12 GA pump shotgun manufactured in 1950. Today I have a nice collection of them, mostly target grade guns. When I dress Western, nothing beats the classic good looks of my Smith & Wesson (S&W) 586 .357 revolver. Sold them when we down sized to a smaller house that did not have a custom built safe room in it like the old house. H. Lea Lawrence relates in his 2001 GUN DIGEST article, The Saga of Bo Whoop, that in 1921 John Olin sent Buckingham his personal heavy double, a custom-choked Super Fox, for testing. Rib Boat, Winchester Winchester Rifle Parts, 12 in Frame 12 in Wheel Electric Bikes, 12 Gauge Barrels, Youth Football Rib Protector . Winchester sent some M-12s to Simmons to have ribs installed, Simmons returned them to Win. 1937 2pin vent rib offerd, all skeet grade guns offerd with solid or plain barrels. You are correct. Exquisite Winchester Model 12, 20 gauge with Modified bore. I found some they didn't.